INTERVIEW: Jo Challen – Mask of Judas

The UK progressive metal scene has really hit its stride in the past decade. Spawning numerous styles and sub-genres, from tech metal to djent to straight up prog, the scene is a complex beast. Whilst they are very much integrated in the scene, MASK OF JUDAS certainly aren’t confined into one particular branch of the progressive metal tree and their upcoming debut record, The Mesmerist, ebbs and flows through soothing passages to crushing technical brutality. We caught up with vocalist Jo Challen to get the lowdown on their upcoming debut full length, including its hard-hitting themes and messages and complex musical style, alongside reflecting on how Jo‘s experiences have moulded her as a lyricist and where she believes MASK OF JUDAS sit in UK progressive music.

So MASK OF JUDAS’ debut album The Mesmerist is due out early this month, what can people expect from the record?

Jo: I guess a variety of different music! I guess it’s quite an upbeat record, it’s got quite the mixture. We’ve tried to do something that doesn’t particularly fit into any genre, we’ve been quite true to ourselves in what we wanted to make and produce. So, some of it is really crazy sounding, some of it is really heavy, some of it is really melodic.

It’s a very dynamic record, you can tell there’s a lot of influences being pulled from a variety of styles. Was that always the intent?

Jo: Yeah. All of us in the band have quite different tastes in music so I guess that has come through in the writing. I think we just wanted to do something that was true to ourselves and make something that’s a bit different. Sam, the guitarist, wrote all the music first well eight out of the ten of the songs, and his influences are metal obviously but I think most of us got into it when we were younger where he got into it when he was older so he comes from a funky/jazz background. So there’s a lot of different influences going on there and he’s curved that around into metal, he’ll bring something that is very out of genre to the band.

The Mesmerist is MASK OF JUDAS’ first material in around four years, so how come it took so long to piece this all together?

Jo: Well, basically money, that’s it really. We had a budget we started with and took it to a studio, and without going into details, something happened and that budget went. So then we’ve had to wait for other people to do us lots of favours, like for example Joe Rosser from Garage Works Studio, he helped finish off the recording for us, Jacob Hansen did the mixing and things but it’s all been done by people who like us. We’re having to do it cheaply so we’ve had to wait for their schedules as they’ve had more higher paying work, so it’s largely just money.

And with it taking four years, did you feel a lot of pressure for it to meet the high standards set by your previous work?

Jo: Yeah, I think as a band you always look back on things you’ve previously done and even before it comes out you think “oh I wish I had done that differently” or “I wish I had done that better” but we didn’t really have that idea of our EPs. We always aim to do things a little bit different to try and improve on them and hopefully we have. We’ve certainly got the best mix we’ve ever had, but there’s always pressure when you are bringing something out. From the last mini album, we had some kind of bad press on some of the songs and some people didn’t like me, I got a few weird comments so I was a bit conscious of that. This time around, we just thought fuck it, we’re going to do what we want, if you try to play up to people’s expectations you’re not going to get anywhere. The guys have really developed as writers, we’ve put out something that we love and made our own.

Listening to the record, I can see the progression from your last material and in particular, your vocals with the cleans and screams. So how did you balance those two contrasting vocal styles?

Jo: It’s what I’ve always done! It is always a struggle. I started singing when I was a teenager on acoustic and to be honest I don’t think I’ve got a naturally amazing voice but I’ve always sung. I think the screams were kind of easier for me, because you have to let go when you’re doing that it’s much easier just to let go and do it than it is with singing where you need a lot of control. Live, for example, it’s something I’ve always done so I’ve got used to it but I suppose it is a little bit tricky having that breath and switching and stuff. Keeping everything in tune and stuff like that is always going to be a struggle when you have just belted your lungs out of air!

It’s a really cool aspect which I think you’ve nailed on this album, it really ebbs and flows with the music…

Jo: Why thank you. I just try and do stuff that matches and makes the music into a song.

The themes and messages on this album are really quite hard-hitting. It is looking at modern day society and a lot of influences that has on people. Was that always something you wanted to address on this album?

Jo: Yeah, it has kind of all come together into one theme but it wasn’t intended to, I suppose that was just what was on my mind! It really is a look at modern society and lots of different aspects of it; political, social, a lot to do with the media and the way people view their lives. In terms of the title, The Mesmerist, it’s about people being heavily mesmerised into doing things they don’t even realise they are doing. Liking things, following people and wanting things they wouldn’t perhaps naturally want without all this persuasion from outside influences. It’s just a look at how bloody strong that persuasion is.

We are living in a time where both socially and politically it is quite divisive. Do you feel by addressing these themes you can switch more people on about these issues?

Jo: Maybe! If anyone reads my lyrics then possibly if they get it but to be honest, if anyone read my lyrics and took away something completely different but it meant something to them then that’s fine as well! But that is certainly where it came from within me, because it reflected how pissed I was and how touched I was by certain aspects of life. I think you do have to recognise it to get change, but all of my songs end on a positive message as I try to suggest a way out of anything negative. I like to suggest a way out as I write it as a reflection so people can question themselves and think about what they are really doing and why. What they are spending their money on, what they are devoting their lives to, what they believe and so on.

What I’ve read recently is that you’ve been to Kenya to volunteer and that experience has impacted on some of the themes you are talking about on this record. So, how did that experience give you perception on what you wanted to talk about?

Jo: Well I actually went to Kenya after I wrote the album but there are songs on it that talk about the value of money and how we see it in modern society and how we are so conditioned to buy ourselves status and appear a certain status to other people for no logical reason whatsoever, aside from that fact we’ve been programmed to do so by business and marketing. Then you go there and you see people who are exposed to very little business marketing, materialism, commercialism and it really puts it into perspective what you require in life and what you don’t. You kind of realise just how much of a trap you are in. All the things we stress about, actually this status and materialism means absolutely nothing. You just need to be happy within yourself.

So it was really an eye-opening experience?

Jo: Yeah, I’d say so! You just see people getting on with their lives with absolutely nothing. There was this guy who ran the charity I volunteered with, he was a Maasai man and he somehow from living in a mud hut having absolutely nothing whatsoever, somehow I don’t know how he did it, he managed to put himself through university. He now works for the UN and started this charity which people can sign up to volunteer with and to donate to that looks after orphans in the village he originally lived in. That’s fucking amazing. Also, the women there were very very strong, there’s loads of different tribes in Kenya but the Maasai tribe, the women tend to have very little rights yet they did all the work, all the jobs, looked after the kids and studied, it’s really inspiring.

Going to a culture like that which is so different to our own and where the women in this tribe are so strong, has that inspired you as a women fronting a band?

Jo: I’ve always felt strongly about the need for equality. I’m not a fan of a stereotypes, I just think there is a huge variety of people in the world, I don’t like to assume what kind of person someone is based on their gender, their race but yeah it was really inspiring! To see a people that are so suppressed, it happens to be women, but they are so suppressed and yet they are working so hard, they are making what they could out of life. They still have aspirations even though they are living without electricity and water and living in poor conditions, they still have aspirations to get jobs, to study computer courses, to look after themselves. It is so inspiring.

Definitely. Going back to the record, I know it is a difficult question but what do you hope to achieve with The Mesmerist?

Jo: Oh my God! [Laughs] I just want people to hear it really, there’s so much music going around at the moment! It would be amazing if we could get a new tour out of this and new fans, hopefully we can touch new people with our music. To be honest, if we only get one new fan from this, I’d still be eternally grateful. We’ve done it four ourselves because we enjoy making music, we like to stretch ourselves and we’re all very creative and we’re all huge music fans. Anything else is a bonus! It would be lovely if we got this out and lots of people love it but even if it is just one person, that’s a bonus.

The Mesmerist is arriving at a time where the UK progressive scene is exploding so do you feel this record has come at the perfect time?

Jo: I don’t know because in terms of the progressive scene you have the djenty sounds, you have very techy sounds, you have much more sounding prog sounds, there’s lots of sub-genres and I don’t really know where we fit in all of that. I don’t think we tick the boxes of any particular label but then again, look at bands like SIKTH back in the day, they didn’t either. I’m not comparing us to SIKTH because they are amazing [laughs] but loads of bands didn’t, so it would be nice if it has come out in a good time. But I’m not so sure because we don’t tick all the boxes, we’re not particularly fashionable and we’re not really emulating anyone.

Seeing as MASK OF JUDAS have been on the progressive scene for some time, would you say that’s how the scene has changed? By branching out into different styles…

Jo: I think so. I think if you talk about prog or tech music maybe 10 years ago it would be so different. But in the last eight years it’s gradually increased more and more, it has come out of its shell and the more something develops the more sub-genres you get. It’s flourishing! You turn on Kerrang! Or Scuzz or whatever, and you see very poppy mainstream bands, which is absolutely fine, but very listenable bands and they’ve got elements of tech in them! Little quirks and stuff, riffs that TESSERACT may have used 10 years ago, so it’s also kind of nice that it’s branching out into the rest of metal and you don’t seem like a loser if you listen to it! [laughs]

And just to round off, once The Mesmerist is released, what is next for MASK OF JUDAS? I imagine the focus will turn to touring?

Jo: Yeah, I’m gagging to tour again! I really can’t wait. We’ve held off from gigging for a while because we didn’t want to do it until we had the album out so now that is done, I’m absolutely desperate! I can’t wait to get gigging again, we’ve got a couple of gigs lined up but I can’t wait to tour again.

Well thank you ever so much for your time Jo, best of luck with the album release, it’s killer.

Jo: Thank you so much!

The Mesmerist is set for release on May 11th via self-release.

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