INTERVIEW: Erik Rutan – Hate Eternal
There are few musicians as synonymous with death metal as Erik Rutan. The HATE ETERNAL mastermind has been an integral part of the death metal scene since the very beginning, releasing his first album with RIPPING CORPSE, Dreaming With The Dead, when he was only 19 years old. He has since been a member of the legendary MORBID ANGEL on two occasions, built a two decade long career as the front-man and lead song-writer of HATE ETERNAL, and established one of the Mecca recording studios of extreme metal, Mana Recording Studios. With HATE ETERNAL‘s newest offering, Upon Desolate Sands, set to drop on the 26th of October, we managed to catch up with Rutan himself to discuss the cathartic nature of the new record, the early days of his career with RIPPING CORPSE and his incredible back-catalogue as a producer.
Hey Erik, thanks for taking the time to talk with us. How are you doing today?
Erik: Hey Fraser! Yeah not bad thanks, just getting ready for tour. The record [Upon Desolate Sands] comes out next week and we’re about to go on tour with CANNIBAL CORPSE in a couple of weeks, so just getting my chops up and making sure I’m on top of my shit. I’m looking forward to getting back out there again, it’s been a while.
Good to hear man. Talking of the CANNIBAL CORPSE tour, which of the new songs are you especially looking forward to finally debuting live?
Erik: One of the singles, All Hope Destroyed, I’m really excited about performing as it’s a really unique song for HATE ETERNAL I think, even though it represents a lot of what HATE ETERNAL represents or what I represent as a player. But it’s an interesting collage of riffage, and it has one of my favourite solos on the record too – it’s just a fun song to play! It’s a really fun song to play, a challenging one for sure to sing and play. So that, and some of the down-tuned songs I’m really excited to play, like Nothingness Of Being or the title track, just because they’re very unique and sound heavy as shit. I’m just really excited to get to play, honestly. I could play the whole damn new record and be excited about it.
You work your tail off to make an album – and I do, for every album. I just appreciate the fact I have the opportunity to record my own band, my own record, in my own studio. I’ve been doing that for a long time. And that was a goal of mine since I was a teenager, to be able to do what I do. So every time I get to that I just feel so grateful for all the opportunities I’ve had and the hard work that I’ve put in, but also the people that have helped me along the way to get me here. I just don’t take it for granted, because I know it’s special to be able to do this. And it certainly is awesome to feel, like with Upon Desolate Sands, that I’ve captured something really special. I just couldn’t feel more excited about the album, and how it came out both from a musical standpoint and a production standpoint.
I think you’re onto something there man. I’ve been blasting Upon Desolate Sands for a while now, and I agree, you have captured something special with this record. Before we move passed the subject of touring, you’ve played a few dates in the UK over the last decade as stops on a wider European tour, but the last time you played a full tour here in the UK was 2008, I believe. Are you planning on coming back to the UK for a full tour on this album cycle?
Erik: Oh yeah! Well, first of all, I love playing England. We’ve always had good shows there since I can recall, back from the MORBID ANGEL days til now. I’ve always had great memories playing England and many places in England. I think part of that is that with HATE ETERNAL starting out on Earache Records we always have had a great response in England. To me, I love playing England and I definitely look forward to playing over there again. I think we’re planning loosely for coming back in the fall of 2019 for this record – partially because I have a few album productions booked next year, and we have another tour loosely scheduled as well, so late summer or early fall is when we’re planning on coming back to Europe and hitting up everywhere there. That’s our plan.
Excellent! Can I hope to see you up in Scotland, or will it just be English dates on that tour?
Erik: Oh man, I would love that! I love playing Ireland and Scotland as well as England. I’m trying to think, but to be honest with you I can’t recall a bad show ever in Scotland or Ireland, or England for that matter. I think the fans are just so awesome up there. I’m fortunate enough to have played the UK so many times yet it just never gets old to me. So as I get older and the more I get to do this, I just really appreciate it that much more. Life is short, man, and you gotta take advantage of the opportunities allotted to you. I have so many great memories of playing in England and Scotland and Ireland, and I’ve met so many great people along the way. Just a ton of great people over the 25, 30 years I’ve been doing this.
It’s harder for me to tour these days because of my producing career. It’s hard to prepare and plan everything out. Sometimes I miss out on an album production, sometimes I miss out on a tour opportunity. So I try to balance it out, and that’s the most complex part. And, of course, including things like a family life, I’m always trying trying to balance it all out. At this point, I’m 47 years old, and I just want to make everything count. If I do an album, I’m gonna make damn sure it’s fucking badass, and if I do a tour I’m gonna make sure I’m on top of my shit and on my A-game. I want to make sure we do the right tours, make the right records, for the right reasons. That’s something that is really important to me, the integrity in what we do, everything I do, and making sure we give 110% to everything we do.
Brilliant, well if you do manage to get a date booked in Scotland I’ll be looking forward to it. So reading the lyrics for Upon Desolate Sands, there is some pretty dark and seemingly personal stuff in there. Was there stories you wanted to tell, or was this mainly a cathartic record for you to make?
Erik: I would say that as HATE ETERNAL has progressed I’ve always liked using ideas and concepts as metaphors for personal events and some tragic moments. I’ve been writing lyrics since I was like 13, 14, and I’ve been playing music since I was very young. For me, it’s always been about having the ability to express yourself through music. There’s never been anything quite like it. There’s so many songs, not just on Upon Desolate Sands but throughout the history of HATE ETERNAL, that have a deeper meaning behind the lyrics. And I really like the listener, or reader in this sense, to formulate their own opinions on it. To me, there’s a lot of depth on there, especially over the last few records. Over the last ten years, I’ve lost some really important people in my life and it has really affected me on a personal level. I’ve used HATE ETERNAL lyrically and musically to really express that emotion. That’s something I’ve always been connected to, the emotion in my music. Playing in HATE ETERNAL has allowed me to become a much healthier, happier person in life by expressing the negative emotion, whether it’s a sense of rage or loathing or sadness or grief or despair. By doing this, it’s been so therapeutic for me.
I feel like in some way Infernus set up Upon Desolate Sands. I feel like they’re connected, as some of our albums are, but Upon Desolate Sands went to a different level. I was really happy with Infernus, but with Upon Desolate Sands I wanted to expand it more. Lyrically, the songs are just things I’ve experienced in my life and endured and I feel like the only way to deal with it is through my lyrics and my music. With Upon Desolate Sands, there’s some really in depth stuff that I’ve put into this record, and I’d really like the reader or listener to dig into it and form their own opinions.
It’s amazing man, I’ve met so many people on the road that ask me questions about my lyrics, or say to me that they’ve struggled in life with this or that, or they’ve come from an abusive family, had issues depression or drugs. I’ve met so many people with so many issues that have said to me “this song really helped me get through a tough time,” or that they’ve read my lyrics and had, like you say, some kind of cathartic release from it. It’s so interesting. I’ve had so many in depth conversations with people over the years, and the fact that I can create music and write lyrics that somehow can help or inspire someone to better themselves or make them feel better about life. Man, I don’t think there’s a better compliment you can get in life. I’ve always utilised this, for the last 30 years, to help me have a healthier life mentally and physically, coming from a situation where I grew up in a very challenged scenario and dealt with a lot of adversity and before music I had no way to really express myself in a positive fashion. Being able to write lyrics and play music like this has really helped me through life in so many ways.
Once again, it’s impossible for me to not be grateful for the people that have supported everything I’ve done for so many years. I’ll meet a guy that I met in 1995 on the Domination tour with MORBID ANGEL, and now I’m meeting him with his 16 year old son and signing his HATE ETERNAL record. So I’m meeting generations of people that have been following my career for decades and I guess that’s why, when it comes to HATE ETERNAL, I put everything I have into it. I gotta tell you, there are moments on Upon Desolate Sands that are painful. They bring me back to a moment, a lot of these songs bring me back to special moments that inspired me to write them. I think with HATE ETERNAL, the songs are always going to be heartfelt and true to who I am and who we are as a band.
Wow. Clearly this a hugely important record to you. Touching on the generational fans you mentioned, that could go one of two ways. I can see that being a very humbling experience, but for certain artists I could also see that being quite inflating to their egos.
Erik: Ego is funny. As I do this more and more, I feel more confident for sure in everything that I do because I’ve been doing this for a long time. But I’m more humble, at the same time. It’s funny when you meet, and I have met, many a musician that is cocky or arrogant or defiant of people. I’ve just never been that way. Any anyone that knows me or has known me in the last 30 years will tell you I’m just an easily approachable guy. Even though some people are a bit like “Holy shit!” and think otherwise from the music I play. I know a lot of people that look at themselves as rockstars, but I’m just like everybody else. I just happen to have some gifts that I’ve been able to make into something because of pure desire and determination and willpower. I know plenty of really talented people that have never had the success I have had, and a lot of that is because I made great decisions. I’ve worked my ass off for 30 years and I’m generally a good person. I make good decisions and I have good relations with people.
I have so much to be happy about when it comes to my careers and my life in general. The more you do, the more you accomplish and the more humble you become. I think that some of these people that have extraordinary egos and cockiness and are living a “true rockstar life”, I look at these people and I see insecurities. Ego and cockiness equals insecurity. And believe me I have plenty of insecurities, and I have self-doubt, and all the stuff that comes with living. But I’ve never been that person in my mind.
I mean sure when I was younger I was cocky and arrogant as shit. But we all are when we’re teenagers. But when you get older and you grow up you just look at things differently. And man, I look at things so completely differently. I don’t have time or room for cockiness and arrogance. I just don’t.
Absolutely. Moving onto your work as a producer, do you ever find a struggle within yourself when you sit down to write a HATE ETERNAL song or HATE ETERNAL record that, as a writer, you want to do something artistically, but as a producer, you know it might not actually work? Or has your work as a producer helped focus your songwriting?
Erik: That’s an interesting question. Definitely, my producing has just helped me all around, just understanding how a studio works and how records work. I’ve had some really difficult records in here and I’ve always overcome them in some regard. I’m sitting in the studio now actually, and I’ve seen so much in these walls, some of people’s best, people’s worst. There’s so many things that have happened here, and I think producing so many different bands of so man different styles has definitely helped me feel more confident in everything that I do leading up to Upon Desolate Sands which is, in my opinion, the best sounding production I’ve done for HATE ETERNAL.
As you can imagine, producing your own record, doing all the mixing and engineering, it’s a tremendous amount of work – especially considering I do all the vocals and play all the guitar parts. But it’s a challenge I’m always up to. As I’ve done it more and more the more confident I get so there’s not much that rattles me anymore. Over the last 20 years I’ve had people in my life tell me I’ve become such a patient person and it’s because of the studio. I like to push people hard to get the best out of them. I have a good insight into the musicality of what people are capable of – even if they don’t realise it themselves! And I’m also good at knowing when to back off and when to push. That patience, experience, and knowledge of being involved, I don’t know how many records, really sets me up for HATE ETERNAL in that I don’t feel there’s anything I can’t accomplish at all, I always just feel that I can do whatever I want to do, creatively, musically, and I don’t worry about the rest, I just do it. When it comes to HATE ETERNAL I don’t think all that much, it’s all feel. I just go with the vibe, feeling and character of what the record represents, writing the best songs. But it all comes from the feeling behind it, running with it and sticking with the best material we have.
So you definitely focus on the art before the production with HATE ETERNAL.
Erik: I do, yeah. I know it’s so intertwined, though. And I get asked sometimes if I would ever have someone else produce, but who the hell is going to have more insight into what I want a HATE ETERNAL record to sound like than me? Like with Hannes [Grossman] playing drums on the record. I knew exactly what I wanted to hear and we worked together to come up with the drum lines. I have a great understanding of drums because I’ve been fortunate to play with great drummers my whole career. I also have a great understanding of bass, guitar, vocals and so on. And so the producing comes naturally more than anything when doing my own records. And my initial goal of recording was to have my own studio and produce my own records and that’s something I wanted to do for almost 30 years. And maybe record some of my friend’s bands, bands I like and such. Obviously that blew up way beyond even my initial lofty goals.
So every couple of years when I get to do a HATE ETERNAL record I lock out a few months and it’s the most challenging few months of my career every time. But at the same time, especially sitting here with Upon Desolate Sands dropping next week, it’s such a gratifying feeling. This early, I don’t know how the record sounds usually. Normally I have to step away from it for quite some time before I can really analyse it and really know. but with this record I just know I captured something special and magical to me. At the end of the day I’ve always kept true to who I am throughout my career and made decisions based of who I am regardless of outside influences. Sometimes people don’t understand those decisions, and some people definitely don’t support those decisions, but at the end of the day you have to stay true to yourself and I have all these years – that’s what’s lead me to where I’m at and who I am today.
I know people hold me in a very high regard, I feel like people hold me to a really high standard which I appreciate but maybe even a higher standard than then then I think I deserve. But I’m always going to give everything I have to everything I do. If I’m cooking some pasta or something and I’m cooking the asparagus and I overcooked asparagus a minute I’m pissed, I just ruined the whole fucking meal. If I make a frozen pizza I get fresh basil and some fresh garlic to spice it up. I just I do everything black and white, there’s not much of a grey area. I’m either 110% in or I’m 110% out. I think people can always depend on that. They know when I do something I’m going to keep true to who we are. I’m going to put everything I got into it. Whether it’s producing or playing.
I get that. I think you can tell from watching interviews or seeing your live show that you are man truly dedicated to his craft.
Erik: Thank you very much. The thing is, with music I just feel like ever since I started it was always for the right reasons. I always wanted to play music, tour the world, do my own records, have my own studio and not by somebody else’s rules but my own. And I never looked back. I had so many people that try to stand in my way or told me it was a pipe dream, I’m never going to accomplish this. And I’ve had many pitfalls and hills and valleys throughout my life and career the land me here but one thing I have is determination and lofty goals… and I’m stubborn a shit! So when somebody tells me I can’t do something my first response is “Go fuck yourself.” You just inspired me for the next five years. I always joke around if somebody wants me to actually retire and they better stop talking shit because they’re just gonna keep it inspiring me!
My whole life [I’ve had people doubting me] since I was a teenager, my principal telling me that I wasn’t college material or that I’m going to work in a warehouse someday. And then other people are like, “Man, you’re living in a dream. You need to wake up to reality and go to college and think about a career.” I always just scoffed at them and just say, yeah, we’ll see. I’m not one of those guys that rest on my laurels. And I’m not a guy that I’ve never been a bitter person, I just always used it as as fuel for the fire. It’s not like I sit around and think, “Oh, I’ll show them!” It just a subliminal thing of “Okay, we’ll see.”
Because I didn’t realise that would have the success I’ve had in the multiple careers I had. I but for me, success was based off doing what I love to do, regardless of how it was ultimately perceived, except for within myself. I want to play music, I want to produce records, have my own studio, have my own band and tour the world and if I can somehow scrape together a living doing that will fucking a’, that’s awesome. And here I am, I’ve been doing it for quite some time, and I just really appreciate it man. I don’t take it for granted, considering my modest beginnings to get to where I’m at. And I think that shows in the person I am, the music that I create and the productions that I do as well.
Absolutely, as I say you can see that you are incredibly driven in the way you carry yourself. I have one last question for you regarding your production work before we move on – is there an album that you’ve worked on over the last 20 years that stands out in your mind as an especially proud achievement for you?
Erik: I have to put it to two records, for two different reasons. One would be CANNIBAL CORPSE‘s Kill. CANNIBAL CORPSE have done so much for me, man, they give me a huge opportunity. Before Kill, I’d done a bunch of records but nothing on the scale of CANNIBAL CORPSE. That was a huge responsibility. I’m following Neil Kernon, a Grammy winning producer, and course Scott Burns and Jim Morris and Colin Richardson, guys that I have a tremendous amount of respect for. Knowing that Kill was a huge opportunity for me, I had to make this album badass and so when I thought about that album I really tried to look into it on what I could bring to the table that’s unique to who I am as a producer. The one thing that I’m really good at is getting great performances because I understand the style of music so well. I’m very thorough. With CANNIBAL CORPSE I was i was going to band practice, I had pre-production for six months in advance before we did the album. I like to get my hands dirty, per se, and really get involved in the whole process. I knew that with Kill, what I really wanted to do is try to encapsulate the authenticity of their performances and their unique characteristic tones that they provide by being such an amazing band not only individually but collectively.
So basically Kill was really my breakout defining moment as a producer. I I did a lot of records before [and since] that are great memories, SOILENT GREEN [Confrontation, 2005], INTO THE MOAT [The Design, 2005; The Campaign, 2009] all the HATE ETERNAL records and KRISIUN [Conquerors Of Armageddon, 2000; Forged In Fury, 2015], GOATWHORE [A Haunting Curse, 2006; Carving Out The Eyes Of God, 2009; Blood For The Master, 2012; Constricting Rage Of The Merciless, 2014] and AGNOSTIC FRONT [My Life, My Way, 2011], MADBALL [Empire, 2010]. There’s so many records, BELPHEGOR [Conjuring The Dead, 2014], TOMBS [Savage Gold, 2014; The Grand Annihilation, 2017], I can just keep going. But that Kill record 12, 13 years ago I think at this point. Not only was it a great record – CANNIBAL CORPSE wrote an amazing album, I love that record – but I put everything I had into that album. And during that record there was some challenging times for me on a personal level so I put everything into it and came out great, people love the record. From that record so many bands are insistent work on me, so I really put Kill as one of the most important records of my producing career.
Upon Desolate Sands, for me, is a huge watermark in my producing career. Producing these HATE ETERNAL records has always been a tremendous struggle because of all the hats I wear and I feel like every record, in my opinion, has gotten better. But this one, I captured something. It starts with the drums, the foundation, they sound so authentic and natural and there’s a lot of energy and power behind it. The bass is clear but kind of gritty, and the guitar sound is massive, clear, distinguishable and full. Those are things that I really wanted to capture and I feel like with Upon Desolate Sands, out of all the seven records I’ve done with HATE ETERNAL, this one really captures the essence of what I could hope for, for a HATE ETERNAL record. So it’s hard to pinpoint even one album lately, I could go on with the bands, THE MOUNTAIN GOATS [All Eternals Deck, 2011] and all the bands that I’ve worked with. They’re all kind of an essential part of who I am and what I’ve accomplished as the producer that I’ve become, and every single one of them was a tremendous learning experience for me to better my craft. Which is not only applicable to other bands but to my own. If I had to pinpoint just one record, then it would definitely be Kill, that was a huge record for me and since then I’ve done a lot of records so that’s a really defining moment for me.
That’s really interesting. Kill was actually my introduction to CANNIBAL CORPSE, I’m only 22 so I obviously missed a lot of the early stuff when it came out. So Kill was my introduction to both CANNIBAL CORPSE and yourself, as a producer.
Erik: That’s interesting, man. Those guys wrote such a badass record. I love Kill, I love the songs on there. We really tried to approach it more old school. The record wasn’t done to a click. I’m not 100% sure, my memory is a little vague, but I think for Kill we went for one take performances on the drums just to capture that kind of spirit and element of CANNIBAL CORPSE. When you see CANNIBAL CORPSE live, they have this kind of unbridled energy. Like I said, I was looking for things that I could emphasise working with them, that I could bring to the table because following all those amazingly bad ass producers, I was like “Wow, okay, so what can I bring to the table that will add a unique characteristic to CANNIBAL CORPSE?” And those are all the things that I I really thought about. It’s funny, I can’t tell you how many people I’ve met over the years that have said “Man I fucking love that Kill album, the production and everything.” It has a special place in my heart for sure. And it was a great moment that led me to do four CANNIBAL CORPSE albums and many, many other bands and albums and so I’ll always hold that record in such high regard.
Absolutely. Moving on ever so slightly, I think it was last month, September, Decibel Magazine included Dreaming With The Dead in their Hall of Fame. When you think back to those RIPPING CORPSE days, is it crazy to you to think that a record you made when you were 19 years old is regarded as an essential death metal classic or even back then did you know you had something special going on with RIPPING CORPSE?
Erik: Honestly, back in those days, especially in my younger days, I definitely felt like we had something special. If you told me we all would have only done one RIPPING CORPSE album I would have been like “No way!” I honestly I thought we would do a million RIPPING CORPSE albums. I never thought we’d break up. When we did Dreaming With The Dead we had probably two other albums worth of material that were in the works. We had so much material. Because RIPPING CORPSE was such a hybrid of ideas, I think we were just a little ahead of our time. People didn’t understand, especially during the beginning stages of death metal when we were incorporating different elements. We were just a little ahead of our time. Now, or even as of 10 years ago, people are incorporating all kinds of stuff but back then it was kind of rare what we were doing. But I always felt like it was special because of the people involved. These guys that I’ve been friends with for 30 plus years since I was a teenager and we put a lot of work and effort into it. Did I realise that it would be respected like it is 27 years ago or heralded or anything? No, I didn’t, I didn’t. But I always knew RIPPING CORPSE was special. And I still believe that. We had something special, we had a certain chemistry musically and we were a true band in the sense that we worked together on everything. Dreaming With The Dead was my first album. And that album ultimately inspired me to become a producer and own a studio as well. So that album has such a huge impact on my whole career, and I did always feet like it was special. I still feel like it’s special. So it’s nice when you can receive accolades for something you did almost 30 years ago. It was a special moment, that Decibel piece for sure. And reconnecting with some of the guys. There was lot of crazy stories that were in there, and some not, for the better probably, but we had some pretty incredible times back in those days for sure.
Do you think you would do anything to to celebrate the 30th anniversary when it comes around? If the opportunity came up, would you do a remaster or do some reunion shows or something?
Erik: Well for the longest time we wanted to re-release the Dreaming With The Dead remastered version with the three song demo we never released after and the unreleased song that didn’t make it on the album. But unfortunately there’s legality issues that have stopped us from being able to do that, and were ultimately a big part of the demise. of the band. The label had gone bankrupt, but somehow they still own our rights. It’s very ugly and complicated. It’s sad to say, but I don’t know if it will ever be re-released again. I hope so, I still have hope that it will because I’d love to see a remastered version with some of these unreleased tracks. As far as reunion shows go… I never say never to anything. I never will shut the door on anything. But we’ve all moved on in our lives and everyone’s very content in their lives with what they’re doing individually. And we have such fond memories of what we did together. So I’m not sure if we would ever do anything again. But you never know! I’ll never say never.
Yeah, for sure. That’s really interesting, I had I had wondered why there hasn’t been a remastered or reissues of it at all, because it’s so hard to get a hold of a copy of that record!
Erik: Here’s a funny thing: in my drum room, I have a milk crate full of RIPPING CORPSE Dreaming With The Dead cassettes. The OG cassettes from ‘91. When the label went bankrupt they said “Okay, well, here’s your payment and we’re going to send you a couple hundred cassettes and some CD’s.” So I’ve been holding on to these cassettes for like 27 years like “What the fuck am I going to do with these?” I’m just going to bring them on tour and if somebody wants to buy them, buy them. The CDs are so damn hard to find. I do keep hope that someday we’ll be able to re-release it. It’s something that I do keep hopeful on.
Fingers crossed! It’s certainly something I would love to see, and I’m sure I’m sure there’s loads of Erik Rutan fans that would love to dig into that first record. Moving away from death metal for just a moment – are there any plans for you to do anything with ALAS again, or is that project just totally dead and buried?
Erik: When I did the ALAS record, man, it was a lot of work. I put so much into that record. I’ve had songs for a long time, I’ve actually got 10 songs right now that I have pre-production for. For the longest time I’ve been asking myself why haven’t I made the time to do the record the answers have been different. Producing and HATE ETERNAL have kept me really busy, but part of why I might have not done the next ALAS record is because there’s some really deep stuff in that record that was inspired by incredibly difficult moments in my life. I kind of feel sometimes the reason I haven’t done another ALAS record is because that band and that music brings me to a place that that I am not a part of and don’t want to be. Like I said, music has always been an expression and an outlet for me. So I’ve had these multiple theories of why I haven’t done it. It doesn’t mean I won’t do another record but ALAS is a really involved and challenging project on an emotional level. So I think that’s part of it, I’d have to be in that right moment, in an emotional state which is a very challenging state at that to do another ALAS record. But I have some great music written and maybe someday I will, because I certainly would like to do a few different projects. I feel like musically I have so much to offer.
I have another project that I’m loosely working on that I can speak about. My friend Jarek [Niemiec] plays Turkish instruments. We have been working on a project, I think we have 10 songs that we’re working on right now. I’m adding in ubo, clean guitar, acoustic guitar and classical guitar and solos over these Turkish acoustic instruments. It’s a really interesting, completely out there thing I’m working on but I’m really excited about and hope to get finished recording next year and released. Maggie [Małgorzata Gwóźdź] who sang on Upon Desolate Sands, the title track, is guesting on it as well on certain moments for atmosphere. Maggie and Jarek play in a band called SARATAN from Poland, so that’s how the whole connection has happened. But if I’m going to do another project it’s always going to be something different and unique. There’s no need for me to do another death metal band because with HATE ETERNAL I can do whatever I want. If I want to do something sludgy or fast or whatever the fuck, I don’t compromise for any anything when it comes to the the musical integrity of creating great songs. That’s why did ALAS, it was completely different and inspired by a lot of my classical upbringing and and just metal. So we’ll see man. In my heart of hearts, I would love to do the ALAS record. It’s also been like 18 years since I did the first record so I don’t know how it’ll all pan out but you never know. We’ll see.
Have you got a name for the new project?
Erik: You know, we haven’t come up with a name for it yet. It’s kind of a personal project so it might we might end up just naming it after our last names. I‘m not sure at this moment, it’s still in the early stages. But it’s definitely something that I plan on getting finished, the recording and release, sometime late next year. So it’s a really neat project. I did it guess solo for Jarek‘s band and I toured with Jarek when I was in Europe in with VADER. He was working with the crew and we just became good friends. He’s an incredibly talented guy. I just asked him one day if he played music. He said “I do but I’m not sure you be into it.” So I asked him and he said he plays Turkish instruments. I love Middle Eastern music. I have a lot Iranian music and different types of music that I’ve really been inspired by and I think you can kind of hear it in my playing. He let me hear what, he plays, the instruments and I was just blown away. I said that we should do a project together, I think it could be really unique and and sure enough, it’s starting to sound that way. It’s different, man, I don’t even know how to describe it. But it’s something I’m really excited about.
I’m definitely excited to hear that late next year, when it drops! So, the artwork on the last two HATE ETERNAL records, Infernus and Upon Desolate Sands, both have a very distinctive style – almost like Biblical paintings. Is there a deeper reason as to why you went in that direction for the artwork, or does it simply come down to the fact it looks amazing?
Erik: I love a lot of the Renaissance era of art. When I’ve done album covers, I’ve always liked paintings. It makes sense. It’s like music, I like more organic type of productions. When it comes to artwork I like a little bit more of an organic kind of cover. Working with Paul Romano for four albums was all paintings and drawings. Eliran [Kantor] does he does the mix stuff. You can just look at it and see the way that he does his artwork and paintings is just so unique and creative. I would say that when it comes to the stylistic approach of the art, that’s something that I would chime in with Eliran on. But when it comes to the vision I’ve always believed in letting the artist kind of translate my interpretation of the music and lyrics into a visual creation, because to stifle an artist, it just makes no sense. With Eliran on both Infernus and Upon Desolate Sands, I sent him the lyrics, I sent the pre-production of all the songs six months in advance. With Eliran I’ve gotten pretty deep in detail about a lot about my life and what’s inspired who I am as a person and what’s made me who I am and why I do what I do. Some of these songs, some of these lyrics, have such a deep meaning to them. So I’ve expressed that with him so he could fully grasp not only how important this is to me, but how music, in so many ways, saved my life where I just have no idea if I didn’t find music where I would be or if I would be. So I’ve shared that depth with with Eliran and he’s translated that into his own conceptual vision. Both Infernus and Upon Desolate Sands, those covers, just love the hell out of them! I can’t even tell you how awesome it’s been working with Eliran. They both are very different but similar, they’re striking, I guess, in a unique way and to me they really truly represent the album at hand. It’s been a great experience with Eliran and I have nothing but love for the guy. He’s does such amazing job and he put so much attention to detail from the sentiment behind the album in the songs to that artistic approach that that he creates himself.
For sure, I love his artwork. He’s worked with so many bands, and his covers always look incredible. I’ve actually got the flag with the Infernus artwork hanging above my desk at the moment!
Erik: That’s awesome! I love those flags, man. God, they’re so awesome.
They are indeed! I’ve got one last question for you before I let you crack on with your day. Are there any newer bands in the death metal scene you are particularly impressed by?
Erik: have to think on that, man. A lot of times, like when people ask me what I’m listening to, I’ll be like, “Well, what album production am I working on?” Because if I’m doing an album I don’t listen to anything else honestly, I just focus on the album at hand and because of that I’m missing out on a lot of other stuff that I really should be listening to. Actually, I just heard this band called CARNATION. I don’t know if you’ve heard them, but they’re about to release a record on Season Of Mist and they’re kind of like old school inspired death metal band, but there’s something about it. I just thought it was awesome man. Have you heard them?
I actually reviewed that record a couple of months ago, it’s an excellent album!
Erik: It’s really fucking cool! A lot of times I hear old school inspired death metal and I’m not super into it, been there done that. But with these guys, I felt like they had something. I just literally heard it the other day and I was just like “Wow, this is pretty awesome!” I really enjoyed it! OUTER HEAVEN, you ever heard of them?
Yeah man, they have a new album dropping soon, or it just came out recently?
Erik: It just came out on Relapse, man. They’re kind of more old school death metal too, but I thought that was really cool. I tend to I tend to like the dirtier, grittier side of death metal, whether it’s technical or not. So a lot of modern stuff that’s kind of overproduced, I have a hard time linking in with that somehow, even though I know there’s some amazing bands out there and great players. I just tend to prefer a little bit more of the grittier side of stuff, like PORTAL or something. I appreciate a little bit of grit in the sound of albums so when some of these bands are kind of going back a little bit for their production, I really appreciate that. How I approach my albums with HATE ETERNAL I always use two records as pinnacle albums for me in metal and it’s Ride The Lightening and Master Of Puppets – two of my favourite albums of all time. I love the coldness and grit of Ride The Lightening, and that really inspired the production I went for on Phoenix Amongst The Ashes, and then Infernus was more like a Master Of Puppets inspired sound. Then Upon Desolate Sands is kind of in the middle. I know it’s really basic to say those two albums, but there’s something about those albums or, Reign In Blood or Hell Awaits. Some of those older albums, the authenticity of them really inspires me. A lot of newer death metal, when it’s too polished I kind of something. I don’t know how to explain it, but when I hear something that’s just kind of dirty and grimy, something about that just attracts me. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like a polished sound or modern production in some ways for certain bands. It just really depends. I look at every band, every production individually and uniquely. Some bands that are more modern death metal, I hear the production I see how that fits and I understand.
One thing I’ve learned is the different sub-genres a death metal – that’s how out of the loop I am! Somebody asked me the other day if I was brutal death metal or if I was just death metal. I’ve been doing this since the term started, I just look at this as death metal that’s pretty goddamn brutal. I didn’t know that there was so many sub-genres now, I can’t even keep track. I just like what I like and I don’t stereotype or put a tag on something. If it happens to be this kind of death metal that I like then it’s awesome. Another newer band I thought was pretty cool is WORMED. I don’t know how new they are at this point but it’s completely different, more technical but a really good band.
Honestly man, we’re about to go on tour for five weeks and if you look at my CD player you say “Man, what death metal records you listen to?” I’m totally that 47 year old dude. I’ve got Legion in there, I’ve got Pierced From Within and Effigy Of The Forgotten and Alters Of Madness. I love a lot of the classic death metal, but I definitely appreciate a lot of the newer bands that are integrating new ideas and different approaches to spice it up in a way. I think that’s killer but I also can go back to those records at any time, just like I can with Ride The Lightening or Master Of Puppets or Hell Awaits or Reign In Blood. Or even back further, pre-death metal, of course, JUDAS PRIEST and IRON MAIDEN and BLACK SABBATH and OZZY. Man, those are the bands that got me to to here. MAIDEN and PRIEST and OZZY and SABBATH, forget about it, man. I’ll be 85, if I live that long, I’ll be 80-something years old, still cranking that shit.
The classics are the classics for a reason. So that’s us pretty much done today. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me, I really do appreciate it. Just before I let you go, have you got any parting messages for our readers?
Erik: Well, I would say thank you very much for the in depth interview. I always I enjoy doing interviews when people put in a lot of effort into the questions and really try to bring out something special and to make it worthwhile for the readers so I really appreciate that. And I would say I look forward to getting over there again soon and playing for you guys. I know it’s been a while so I hope that we can change that, get up there and make sure we play. I hope to see you, and hope everybody enjoys the record. And thank you very much for the interview.
Upon Desolate Sands is due for release October 26th via Season Of Mist.
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