INTERVIEW: Manuel Gagneux – Zeal & Ardor
These days, finding something unique in metal can be a bit of a challenge; it takes more than just a different guitar tone to stand out. ZEAL & ARDOR have not so much changed a tone here and there than taken the entire genre and fired it out of a cannon. Combining the likes of blues and soul with black metal shouldn’t work on paper but Manuel Gagneux, the mastermind behind the band, has crafted something truly, truly brilliant and one-of-a-kind. Earlier this month, we spoke to the man himself about his latest record Stranger Fruit, how the band’s creative process works and, er, 4chan…
Manuel, thank you for taking the time to speak to me today. To start off – I saw a rumour that you formed ZEAL & ARDOR off two music suggestions given to you on 4chan. Is that correct?
Manuel: That’s correct!
Did you think in your wildest dreams that ZEAL & ARDOR would grow into the entity that it is today from that?
Manuel: Never, [laughs], it’s bizarre! It started as this weird dare and now it’s something pretty serious! But I wholeheartedly embrace it!
So it was actually a dare? You said “I dare someone to give me two genres of music and I’ll see what I can do with it?”
Manuel: Yeah, I did it a couple of times and the end result was horrible but this combination stuck with me because it had some interesting possibilities.
They are very distinct – you combine blues, gospel, soul and negro spiritual music with black metal. When you started creating it, what was it that made you realise it had potential?
Manuel: Well, there’s a magic about it; Scandinavia, especially Norway, had Christianity imposed upon their people who rebelled in interesting ways whereas American slaves had Christianity imposed upon them and they almost dissimilated and they had their own song, but for me it was a similar situation with different and I wondered how it would sound if the outcome were different.
And I believe you said this was originally meant to be a one man project; when you released Devil is Fine, which was in some ways the catalyst for the world to begin to know about you, did it get to a point where you realised you’d have to get a band together and take this on the road?
Manuel: Yeah, that was because Walter, who does Roadburn Festival, said out of the blue that we should play the festival and that of course was a huge honour for any heavy band, so it was at that point I figured I should ask my friends if they’re free in April! At first it was five gigs and we had it in our minds it would be just a fun strange thing to do and now 70 gigs later it’s beyond that!
So, does part of you sit back and think well this has spiralled out of control!?
Manuel: In a very, very nice way, yes! [laughs]
What’s the progression between Devil Is Fine and Stranger Fruit?
Manuel: Well, Devil Is Fine was more of a proof of concept if anything; it was also really short and self-produced and wasn’t the most appealing piece of music, sonically speaking, so I just wanted to up production and make it an actual album; that is, if people still listen to albums nowadays!
Well I’ve found a lot of people nowadays who, despite this perceived want to flip-flop between certain songs on Spotify, like to listen all the way through a record in one go. Do you find, therefore, that you wanted to create a record that has that overall experience as opposed to something that was just a great collection of songs?
Manuel: Yeah, that was a big wish of mine, to have a product that you could listen from A to Z without losing the ebb and flow of it and I say that as a person that skips between songs sporadically, so I’m in a glass house at this point!
[laughs] throwing stones at your own creation! Where does the band name come from?
Manuel: Actually, it’s how I like to approach music – with ZEAL & ARDOR, passion and determination, but the two words are also heavily Christian; you only really find them in the Bible, so in my head I see someone reading those two words and thinking “woah, these two words I’ve never heard of, better Google them!” and then they find my shitty music!
And do you like the contrast, in a sense, that you’re creating something that, whilst not being anti-Christian, was around rejecting monotheism and then combining it with these two very religious words to go over the top?
Manuel: Yeah, that’s exactly it!
And following on from that, does Stranger Fruit tie into that a little bit with the whole story of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit and in a way rebelling against God?
Manuel: Yeah, but it’s also a reference to the Billie Holiday song Strange Fruit, which centres around lynching and something that is very much in line with the themes of the album itself.
Nice! What was it like working with a proper producer this time around and especially with Kurt Ballou on mixing, who seems to be an absolute genius with this sort of thing?
Manuel: It was an absolute treat; there wasn’t much of an influence in the songwriting, that was very much me, but there’s something to be said about people being patient with the quality of sound and that is not me, so I really cherish people who help me out. Yeah, Kurt is insane; I don’t think he sleeps, he just mixes and produces!
Are there any particular moments on Stranger Fruit that really stand out for you?
Manuel: You know, I don’t think I have enough distance yet from the record to truly say that, but I’m really happy with the title track itself turned out; that was very much an exploration in the sense that it was the most experimental thing for me and I really like that it’s cumbersome and not easy to listen to.
I’d agree with that; I loved how it needed a few listens to sink in and I also really enjoyed the message behind it. The other song that stood out for me was Ship On Fire, which I found really hard-hitting from a lyrical standpoint.
Manuel: Ah, glad you like it!
No worries! I just think that when you’re combining elements like slavery and Satanism and you’ve got two meanings which beautifully dance together, you can come up with some very potent that comes at many different angles. When it comes to writing, on that note, what is the basic plan with ZEAL & ARDOR?
Manuel: Yeah, I mean to me it’s very important to have the ambiguity, that it’s not quite certain whether I’m referring to Satan, slavery, modern times etc. I really like that grey area where some of the responsibility is in the listener’s hands. It sounds lazy but I really enjoy that when listening to other people’s music.
So you like music that’s layered and gives you something to explore over a number of listens?
Manuel: Exactly, something to sink your teeth into!
It’s also really cool that you’ve hit a niche in a metal market that can be over-saturated in many different genres, something that’s so unique and brilliant that it’s standing you apart from everyone else. As ZEAL & ARDOR had grown in the way that it’s done, what sort of comments have you been getting about it?
Manuel: Yeah, people think it’s interesting and new but then the people who hate it aren’t really the sort of people who speak to me about it, haha! It’s safe to say I live in a bubble! What stands out to me is that people gravitate towards the novelty of it, for lack of a better term.
And I guess as well that, if you’re trying to create something that’s quite layered, that they stick around to find that ZEAL & ARDOR aren’t just a novelty but a long standing thing that can go on?
Manuel: You know, in part that’s actually my responsibility to achieve so I can’t really blame anyone for liking the novelty of it. Just because there’s something there for me beyond that facet doesn’t mean it is for anyone else, so I’m very conscious not to give demands like that. [laughs]
I can understand that! Are you looking forward to going back on the road?
Manuel: Yeah, we have a whole eclectic range of festivals this summer and we’re rehearsing hard on the new set to make sure we’re ready. Last year we topped out at one hour shows whereas now we’re ready to play at least an hour and a half, maybe even longer. I’m actually kinda anxious to unleash this upon the masses!
Are there any festivals you’re particularly looking forward to playing?
Manuel: Well, all of them in a sense, we get to play Download, Hellfest and Wacken but also Primavera Sound and Montreux Jazz Festival. There’s always that challenge that we have to win over the audience and that we can never 100% relax or rely on people to know us so that’s always something to look forward to.
And after the festivals, are there plans for more headline shows?
Manuel: I’m not allowed to talk about that I’m afraid, [laughs]!
Finally, if you could sum up the how the entire ZEAL & ARDOR experience has been for you, in as few words as possible, what would you say?
Manuel: Well, that’s hard because I haven’t really digested all of it yet, but from what I can tell so far, the one thing I’ve learned is that I don’t know what will happen. I have utter confidence that I have absolutely no idea what’s going to happen!
What a great line to end on! Manuel, thank you very much for speaking to me today.
Stranger Fruit is out now via Radicalis/MVKA. ZEAL & ARDOR are featured in the latest issue of Distorted Sound, grab a copy here.
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