Anti-Flag: Don’t Let The Bastards Get You Down
ANTI-FLAG have always been an extremely political band and that’s no different on their latest album 20/20 Vision. If anything their hatred of Donald Trump has made this album one of their most outspoken, something that drummer Pat Thetic isn’t afraid to express as we sit down for a chat before their headline show in London.
“Donald Trump is a complete piece of shit. Boris Johnson is not far behind him. We knew that in 2014-2015, with the immigration of people and refugees coming from the Middle East and central America for economic reasons. When populations move, there’s usually a right-wing person who will take that and use it to gain power by manipulation and making the most defenceless people into the enemy. That’s what always happens and what is happening right now.” subtlety has never been ANTI-FLAG‘s thing and Pat clearly doesn’t mind this, they were a band who made a name for themselves by screaming ‘you’re gonna die for your government’ after all.
It’s never just been about shouting catchy slogans with no real meaning though, their concern for social injustice has always been completely genuine. He doesn’t bother mincing words at all during our chat as he goes on to say. “When it comes to these issues of freedom and injustice, we are very angry about all of it. We genuinely believe that things can be different and it’s amazing when you realise there’s still backwards jackasses in the world who think that they are better than someone else because of the colour of their skin, where they were born or what side of an imaginary line drawn on a map they come from. So that makes us very angry, so when we write these songs that passion and anger is what comes through.”
Still, he seems to understand that the band have had to go about getting this message across to people in a way that isn’t just shouting shouting in their face, even if they’ll still occasionally take that tactic as well. “One of the things we try to do is blend these heavy and dark political themes with a bit lighter music. When you do that successfully it helps people connect with it but gets that message of revolution in them like an earworm. That’s one method, getting people to realise the fucked up way it is today isn’t the way it always has to be, things can be different.” That anger will always exist in their punk DNA though as he adds, “I mean I love really angry music too. When we’re at our best is when we can bring that anger and frustration into a anthemic song that people can connect with.”
When looking at the politics in their lyrics and how it is often centred on the situation in America as that is what ANTI-FLAG are confronted with on day to day basis, the band still know that these problems are not just limited to America. “We are obviously ethnocentric to the US ‘cos that’s where we grew up and that’s where we exist and are fed propaganda every day. So we will fight back against that specifically. But the songs are social justice songs.” These songs don’t just belong to ANTI-FLAG or just Ameircan punks. “They’re revolution songs and every culture has an underclass that is fighting to have their rights recognised and their existence be normalised. These songs really are for everybody not just people in the US.”
As our conversation draws to a close, the possibility of not having to write another album about Trump comes up. Something that Pat certainly looks forward to but doesn’t feel too optimistic about right now. “After the recent debacle with the election in Iowa I’m not filled with hope.” It’s clear he feels America’s political troubles run deeper than Trump and that whilst an alternative is desperately needed, it seems unlikely that is going to come around. “Anybody who wants to bring economic change is going to be pushed down and side-lined. People are willing to give up a lot of things but no one will give up their economic power.” Of course he correctly points out that things over here aren’t very different to what is happening in America right now. “It’s sad, when we look and see Boris Johnson got re-elected it doesn’t give me much hope for things in the States. Donald Trump with nothing to lose is much scarier person than Trump right now who at least has some constraints on him.”
He concludes that it’s up to us to do everything we can to challenge the way things are now and that until people start to think critically about those in control, things won’t change. “People will start to think critically and realise those in charge are taking advantage of the population. We literally gave the keys to the kingdom to a conman in the US. I mean in the UK as well, Boris Johnson is clearly a conman, the same as Trump. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back and people will realise this.” It might not be the most cheerful note to end on as that change might not be as close as we’d hope but Pat seems to cling onto the hope that eventually we will get there
So how has this tour been going for ANTI-FLAG?
Pat: Great, the four or five weeks we were in Europe were great. Now being in the UK for 10 days has been a lot of fun. It’s good to be playing these new songs live and have people finally hear them. We recorded them a few months ago and have just been sitting on them, so that space between recording and people hearing the songs is a shitty place to be.
It’s been a few weeks since the 20/20 Vision came out, how has the reaction been?
Pat: It’s been great. It’s been fun to play these shows and people engage with these songs. Like looking out and seeing everyone singing them back to us. Seeing that people have really connected with these songs is the best. The albums a few weeks old but some of the singles have been out online for a little while longer so people have really sunk their teeth into those.
Does it feel like you’ve had a little more momentum on these last few albums, particularly over here in the UK it feels like people are more engaged with you?
Pat: Honestly it feels like the same as it’s been for the last 25 years we’ve been doing this. I dunno maybe there has been here. I mean we play all over the world and it’s interesting because some cities are more interested in punk rock and activism. More kids will come out to shows there. Then five or ten years later it goes away but this stuff becomes popular in a different city. Punk rock just ebbs and flows all over the world.
So once this UK run is over how is the rest of the year looking for ANTI-FLAG?
Pat: Well our lives for the last 25 years have been record an album, go on tour, go back home, go on tour again and then record a new album. So yeah because of the new record we’ll be on tour a lot but it’s not gonna be much different to what it’s usually like.
I guess regardless of the outcome of this next election you’ll continue to put out political music as there will still be injustices that need changing.
Pat: Yeah exactly. I mean Obama was dropping bombs on people with drones and that was fucked up. Doesn’t matter what political party is in charge, there’s still gonna be entrenched power that needs to be commented on. However, having said that Donald Trump is a complete piece of shit so right now it feels like anyone other than him will be a huge improvement.
20/20 Vision is out now via Spinefarm Records.
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